I think what Dariusz is hitting on is the gray area between MonetDB as a storage engine to wrap an application around and MonetDB as a pure database server dedicated to user queries. His comment about MonetDB not being "production ready" falls into the latter category and didn't appear to be intentionally disparaging.

The original email was about how to stop an export process. Here's another related example, if you open things up to users and someone kicks off a query with a cartesian join there is no way to connect to the mserver5 process and kill that individual query without interrupting other queries. Another thing Dariusz inquired about in an earlier email was mserver5 logging. These are all traditional DBA items which are not available in MonetDB. It's really more a perception issue, if you call something a database people are going to have a natural tendency to compare to the other databases they've worked with.

Note: this isn't a commentary on what should or shouldn't be included in MonetDB. MonetDB is open source and the beauty is that people can individually or collectively take things wherever they want. Perhaps you could argue that the collective can work......... awww crap, let's just call it a night. ;)

-Ross



On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 6:42 PM, Mark V <mvyver@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 11:22 AM, dariuszs <dariuszs@svnp.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> I did not say It's anybodys' fault, I'm simply evaluating the software, I
> think the software is amazing. All I was asking was - what would I do if I
> was going to use it in production and I had to deal with situation like
> this, that's all. Thanks for hour help. Dariusz.
>
Apologies then.
I took your question, "So this database was never intended for
production use?",  to mean that you'd discovered something about
MonetDB which meant it is not suitable for production use, and you
wanted to know if that was correct.
Whereas, to me, it sounded like your app. was still in the development stage.

For what it is worth.... I think several MonetDB servers can be run on
the same machine using different port numbers.  This might allow you
to periodically setup a 'temporary' server for long-running/fragile
'stuff'.  If things go pear-shaped you can kill it off and leave your
production server MonetDB running.  If you are in a production
environment with very stringent availability constraints, and if your
app could conceivably do really wild things, you might like to
consider running the temp MonetDB servers on a physically separate
machines.  Depends what trade-offs you can make.

Maybe someone else can make an authoritative comment on any potential
pitfalls in either of these architectures.

Mark


>
>
> Mark V wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 6:44 AM, dariuszs <dariuszs@svnp.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>> So this database was never intended for production use? Dariusz.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> You've designed your application to do/allow
>> fragile/volatile/experimental things on a production server, a server
>> which hundreds of people depend on - and its MonetDB's fault?
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Martin Kersten wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> dariuszs wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> Well then how do you stop that process? Terminate server? And if
>>>>> that's a production machine? Log off hundreds of people?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The server does not see when a client ceases until it requests the
>>>> next statement. The protocol does not include an out of bound message
>>>> to warn
>>>> the server.
>>>> Even if it could, the bulk-processing approach leads to at best stopping
>>>> between two MAL instructions. Such an instruction can take a lot of
>>>> time.
>>>>
>>>> The developments aimed at distribution and automatic horizontal.
>>>> partitioning are the handles to better control 'early escape'
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Martin Kersten wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> dariuszs wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>> Please verify this - when you output a file from the table with
>>>>>>> 'copy... into...' and terminate that client - the output file is
>>>>>>> still being created even though the client was terminated. Thanks.
>>>>>>> Dariusz.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Of course. mclient and server are two independent processes.
>>>>>> And MonetDB does not let you abort a query easily.
>>>>>> So the back-end happily continous to finish the query.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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